Opinion: Why I went from Mac back to Windows

by Josh Lundberg | Wednesday 26 October 2011

Josh Lundberg thought he'd never buy another PC again. Here he explains what happened that changed his mind.

At the start of 2010 I was an avid Mac user, with all my computing done in OSX. By the end of the year I had an i7 in an Antec 900, a couple of terabytes of hard drive space and a solid state drive to house the operating system to which I had sworn I’d never return.

The spark that caused my backflip was professional. I'd often heard throughout my education and now in the professional field that creative people use Mac. As a dedicated Windows power user I spent two thirds of my media degree clinging to the platform, which was suffering from poor support on the software side of things as digital production made the switch to high definition.

Return to the PC

PC editing suites frustrated me and I finally broke down and switched from my Core 2 Duo desktop to a 2008 Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro, which at the time was an incredibly powerful machine. It revolutionised the way I worked and over time I fell into the fanboy camp, drizzling lines like, “with a Playstation 3 for gaming and a Mac for editing, I don’t think I’ll ever buy another PC again” throughout discussions about Mac vs PC.

Given Vista was released around this time it was a pretty obvious statement to make, as Microsoft looked as if they were losing their touch.

Of course, when it comes to technology you should never say never and by 2010 the new, slick, functional Windows 7 was gaining traction. So I threw it onto my Windows XP Core 2 Duo machine to take a peek.

I’d left the PC platform in 2008 with 2GB of RAM and after using Windows 7 for a couple of days I wanted to see the OS to stretch its 64-bit legs, so I went around to my local computer store and picked up two more 2GB sticks. Low and behold I was in love.

By the end of 2010, Adobe had released CS5, which allowed users to harness the power of an Nvidia graphics card to power their Premiere Pro software, which increased my productivity by around 30-40% and revolutionised the speed at which I edit and simplified workflows. But that, after all, was just the spark.

Many people I know use the opposite system at home than they do at work, which is entirely understandable; they tire of staring at the same UI, which is often controlled by IT personnel who deprive them of any resemblance of freedom on what is typically a Windows machine. Mac machines feel soft and fluffy and fun to go home to, but they are lacking in a few key areas.

Power per Dollar

When it comes to computing, my wants and needs boil down to a couple of factors; primarily: power per dollar. When it comes to cost efficiency the PC cannot be beat. The freedom to choose my parts and build whatever machine suited my usage model was an experience I didn’t even remember I had missed. For under $2000 I built a machine that could trounce a $4000 Mac Pro in almost every department and leave room for expansions, modifications and upgrades.

User Experience: User Interfaces

Windows 7 has provided the most stable operating environment I have ever used. The second would be Snow Leopard, with Windows XP ranking third. In some ways this can be attributed to my former dedication to the PC platform; I know how to fix a PC. Beyond the odd Terminal command I don’t really know how to fix a Mac. Well, I do – I book a Genius appointment. To many this is of great benefit, but not a user who knows how to mash ‘regedit’ into the keyboard, find faulty sticks of RAM by process of elimination and boot into safe mode and destroy viruses file by file. Aside from a lack of knowledge I always felt that this was also a symptom of the many restrictions Apple inflicts upon its users.

I find Windows is in some ways provides a less intuitive user experience than OSX. It does, however, provide me with the freedom to harness the true potential of the hardware inside my machine. I am never at the feet of Microsoft wondering why the latest graphics drivers aren’t working well, when that information is far from easy to obtain on Mac.

Another consideration is adherence to standards. Microsoft might not want to support a standard, but you can usually find a solution and buy the hardware you want anyway. A perfect example of this is Microsoft’s stubborn resistance of BluRay support.

In skipping Vista I unwittingly missed the many changes Microsoft had made to, in some ways, Apple-ise the user experience. The Start menu changed, security was far more complicated and to this day I still have issues with changing networks from unidentified to home. Things I could fix with a few clicks in XP were now hidden behind opaque, confusing instructions in order to prevent users who don’t have advanced computer skills from endangering their system.

Windows gives me a sense of greater control over my computing; I can allocate system resources with greater freedom. With OSX it always felt like there were so many unnecessary, overdesigned processes going on, whereas my msconfig settings boot as I command. The return of precise transfer times into my life was very welcome, too. I was so tired of ‘about a minute’, which was almost never correct.

Windows sacrifices much in the way of sex appeal to bring us choice. As contradictory as that may seem - given the anti-competitive nature of some of Microsoft’s business practices - I find the level of user customisation and interactivity in Windows to be unsurpassed. Apple tell users how to ‘best’ use their software and hardware. In my experience Microsoft tend to avoid this to a fault (unless .docx is involved), but it works for me.

For me any negative aspects of using Windows are immediately eradicated by the freedom it brings. My feelings for Windows are undoubtedly affected by my love for editing and photography, which can now utilise the raw power of my PC so I can be more creative more quickly and with far less frustration.

Gaming

Beyond work and my own creative projects, another passion of mine is gaming. And in the world of power users, the PC is king. Who wants to play games at 720p when they can play at 1080p, 60 frames per second with 32x anti aliasing and anisotropic filtering so intense you can read a stop sign from a virtual mile away?

Switching back from console gaming has been a magnificent experience, with higher precision with the old keyboard and mouse, richer graphics and shorter loading times all contributing to my ever-increasing love of the platform.

DirectX 11 was a welcome change after everything I had seen with DirectX 10. With Windows 7 I can enjoy the visual enhancements that can be seen in water displacement simulation, tessellation and other technologies that increase the level of immersion.

My Steam account has spiralled out of control, with 80 games on my account as the famous sales let me access all the amazing PC games I missed out on while I was a console devotee.

What I Miss

OSX has many features I miss, such as Spotlight; hitting Command and spacebar together will provide a bar in which to type any application, folder or file name and launch by hitting ‘enter’. I am well aware of Microsoft’s Start search function, but I’ve never found it as fast or reliable as Spotlight.

On the hardware side of things, Windows laptops (including my new Sandy Bridge laptop) lack one feature that is sadly a victim of patents: MagSafe.

There is without a doubt a friendliness associated with OSX and Macs in general. They are well designed – aesthetically speaking - and feature what I believe to be the best trackpad technology available.

When it comes to computing my emphasis has always been on power per dollar and user wants and needs. Simply because I have switched back to PC and Windows doesn’t mean I think Macs are bad or OSX is “worse”. I think it is important to emphasise that they are merely different. If you want to use iTunes, browse the web, watch videos and DVDs then I think a space-saving MacBook Pro is a great way to go. No Mac is, however, worth the price tag in terms of hardware performance.

As for gamers, publishers may be making a solid effort to put games on Macs, but due to the relatively poor graphics hardware Mac may never be a suitable platform for the hobby.

If I didn’t want and need a powerful system suitable for CUDA-powered editing and gaming it is likely I’d just get a Mac because of the simplicity the ecosystem brings. Then I’d always be left wanting for my upgradable, tweakable love: Windows.

Have an opinion? Add your comment below.

Also read:

32 Reasons why PCs are Better than Macs

32 reasons why PCs are better than Macs: are they still true in 2010?

See more about: opinion | windows | vs | mac | macbook | pro | pc | compare

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tHeSmUrF 27 October 2011	Well written and none of the usual bias crap. While I'm definitely in the Windows camp and can't stand OSX, it's good to see someone not taking the usual fanboi route and just pretending to have no bias (despite being an obvious Windows/Linux/OSX hater). That said, I can’t wait to see the flaming that is about to start. Over to you photohounds, amcmo and rubaiyat :) Comment made about the PC & Tech Authority article: Opinion: Why I went from Mac back to Windows? Josh Lundberg thought he'd never buy another PC again. Here he explains what happened that changed his mind. What do you think? Join the discussion.
girkers 27 October 2011	You can actually get similar features to spotlight using Launchy - http://www.launchy.net/index.php I too love the Magsafe on my daughter's Macbook Pro, a couple of times the cord has become a health hazard but with Magsafe nothing has been broken including people :) To me it is like anything, the right tool for the job, Macs and PCs both have there place in this world as does a shifter and 10mm spanner. The right tool for the right job.
DoubleAl 27 October 2011	I still think a Mac is better for editing, Win 7 and Premiere Pro CS4 just doesn’t work and CS5 still has the Premiere Pro niggles (generating peak files etc). My experience with CS2 and CS4 production premium on PC has been horrifying, although my experience with CS5 is limited I think FCP (even FCPX) will do the job better and without the freeze ups and crashes associated with Premiere. There is something to be said about the ease of owning a Mac, my i7 PC that I build has not been all smooth sailing with a HDD failure and a driver bug I've not been able to fix, and I'm on my own in trying to fix these things. With the Mac, just drop it back to the store or a quick search online normally sorts any problem with a multitude of people using the exact same product. Plus there is a degree of hardware quality assurence compared to a PC, especially one you’ve built from bits and pieces purchased from MSY or similar. My experiece in the Mac/PC value question is that the poor man pays twice: think about the time spent updating drivers indivdually or replacing faulty ram/hdd’s on PC compared to walking into the Mac store or the ease of OSX updates. All that said I still love my PC, back to playing Mafia 2 with awesome PC graphics. Oh, and I got a new Mac Book Pro about a month ago, I found out today they just upgraded the Macbook range - Apple sucks like that.
amcmo 27 October 2011	Each to their own. Several factual errors and when anyone starts going on about the 'freedom' of Windows, Android etc, I wonder about their true allegance. There's more than enough 'freedom' with Apple product, including being able to open the case and upgrade (provided you are not a total idiot). Most of what he says comes down to personal pref, however you CAN make use of CUDA on a Mac Pro (or Hac) As known, I have an Air and have not had any problems with performance and stability, more than I can say for at least 3 recent versions of Windows including 7 with infuriating changes to the security schema. I use Win7 pc's in the office and at home, and apart from several issues with drivers, lock ups etc am happy enough with no rush to change to Mac. I also do serious video work, as does our in house Mac expert, both on CS5 (plus FCP on the Mac for some work). Concensus, slightly faster on the Mac, but damn all in it. More stable on the Mac. Smurf, Sorry to disapoint you, however my posts in defence of Apple have been in response to a large number of typical anti-Apple rants that are lacking in fact. I've posted pro-Apple where appropriate to balance the argument. At least as a person with a foot in each camp I can see the good and bad of both. Apple is not without fault, however their gear typically just works, support is incredible. Win, if you don't mind being on your own is more than OK (Just try getting ANY support from M$, and most PC support companies are more than lacking in knowledge of Win Domains and Exchange)
DerekParnell 27 October 2011	I've always said that if you want or need to use Apple software then get a Mac, but otherwise why would you waste your money and time.
amcmo 27 October 2011	Actually, we don't NEED to use Mac software. We do find it BETTER for SOME tasks, certainly no worse. OFTEN MUCH CHEAPER than M$! Our Macbook Air was cheaper to buy than any comparable superlight notebook. It runs both Mac and Windows, connect nicely to our Win network, is more rugged than any of our other notebooks. So Derek, to address your comment... For less money, we got a better computer, that also runs Win programs where we don't have a Mac equiv (2 only)... I don't get how you could consider that wasting money.... Oh, it also boots faster, logs on to the network faster, so no wasting time either. We did look at MacPro for several additional requirements however decided that model was at present not a great value prop. The new Sandy Bridge Xeon model early 2012 may well be. For i5 and i7 based systems our IT mgr has made quite a compelling value and ease of use argument for the iMac. I've approved a trial, but not the ongoing purchase to replace current machines. I might add, the IT mgr is not our in house Mac fan.
rubaiyat 27 October 2011	DoubleAl wrote: Plus there is a degree of hardware quality assurence compared to a PC, especially one you’ve built from bits and pieces purchased from MSY or similar. Uh Oh, that doesn't sound reassuring, I'm planning on going down that route, but it is so hard trying to build that mythical "cheaper" PC without cutting a lot of corners. Odd in the article that the objections for someone supposedly so wedded to OSX for so long, is that they don't know how to do technical things like test the RAM. Why assume you can't when you haven't done the obvious? 1. Ask other users or Apple. 2. Run the Apple Hardware Test which comes on the installer DVD. 3. Get Techtool Pro and do it all with a GUI. If you want to fiddle with technical aspects of boot and hardware you can edit the kext files. If that's something that gets your rocks off. Under the hood OSX is just UNIX so you can get as technical and intimate with the hardware as you want. The whole point of OSX is that really you don't have to, but it's there if you want it. The author didn't just know the things they know in Windows, they had to learn them. Their case against Mac OSX is that they hadn't bothered. I will agree on the issue of building a powerful desktop PC to beat a MacPro, but I don't believe he did it for anything like half the price. That is a claim I repeatedly test and never get in reality, not even close. btw The MacPro is a very powerful and well tailored beast whose only fault is that Apple has been busy elsewhere and has not updated it in yonks. I wonder what I can build if I put a car together out of spare parts and save on non-essentials like manuals, warranty, support and the many weekends of unpaid labor both putting it on the road and keeping it there? DoubleAl wrote: I've always said that if you want or need to use Apple software then get a Mac, but otherwise why would you waste your money and time. On the point of saving money and time, I will offer the sage advice I've given my PC friends, why don't you just learn to cook and give up on the mountains of take-away you consume whilst trying to make your PCs work. You'll be a lot healthy for a start, and maybe your taste buds might stop committing suicide at the sight of both your food and your PCs.
gracewing 27 October 2011	Ironically, my "never say never" was that I woudl never buy a Mac you I bought a Macbook pro during my triop tot he US this year. The reason - an unstable Dell XPS laptop and a need to perform. I chose the Mac on the recommendation of colleagues there and immediately put Win 7 on via bootcamp, a relatively painless exercise. I almost always boot to Windows but can use OS X when required. It was definitely not cheap, but neither is even one day of lost production in that circumstance. The colleagues had decide to standardise on Macs after a run of problems with Dells.
rubaiyat 27 October 2011	There is one more thing. To build a $4000 Mac Pro you would have to buy a lot of RAM and Hard Drives from Apple, the very things that you can simply install yourself. So why would you? Have you seen how easy it is to get into? I just wish I could get a PC case half as good, at twice the price. But you can't, for love nor money.
odysseus 27 October 2011	> I just wish I could get a PC case half as good, at twice the price. But you can't, for love nor money. You might want to look at some of Lian Li's products: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_30_394&products_id=12084
rubaiyat 27 October 2011	I've seen those and several others. Are we looking at the same thing, and have you actually seen a Mac Pro case live? Do yourself a favor go to the video store and rent "The In-Laws" with Alan Arkin. One of the funniest scenes is where they are given a tour of the Latin American Dictator's "Art Collection" of nude women painted on velvet. I get that exact same sense of having arrived in the alternate universe of good taste and design as I hear PC users gush over the case with the interior painted black! (what attention to detail!) and the rough edges sanded off the pressed metal. In case you don't quite get it, it is not just a matter of visual appeal. It is the careful thought that has gone into accessibility, functionality, tidiness, energy efficiency, passive cooling and quietness of the Mac Pro. Something totally, absolutely, uncomprehendingly absent in the PC world.
rubaiyat 27 October 2011	tikicentral wrote: hi! i am new here, i just aquired this gorgeous original, vintage painting, of a nude dark skinned woman , african or latin descent, with blue eyes, long straight silky black hair, shes standing waist deep in water, in a unique, hand carved wood frame, i want to sell it but the artists signature is hard to make out. it almost looks like two capital B's with ueno maybe bueno or buena but the second to last letter also looks like a t. or maybe suerta. the B's almost look like two big 3's! this is driving me crazy!? any help on this painting or even possible value, would be such a relief. thank you all! beautiful art in this forum! thank you again! jenny garcia Hey, all you PC users. You've got the contacts! Can you help her out? She could be very grateful. Sounds like someone who appreciates men with sophistication and style, willing to treat her out to night at Hog's Breath, over a plate of spare ribs chased down with one of those cocktails with a little umbrella stuck in the pineapple ring! Wooooee!
Reggie 28 October 2011	For anyone who interested this seems like a bargain to me http://www.ebay.com/itm/OIL-PAINTING-VELVET-1964-NUDE-WOMAN-BOUFFANT-HAIRDO-/270294595647#ht_500wt_1148
911TS 28 October 2011	I have a PC I built for less than half the price of the equivalent Apple product. Recently added an SSD to it. Windows 7 has been rock solid. It really is a great OS. I also have Windows 8 pre-beta Developer Preview installed and am flat out getting that to crash too. I think MS are not prepared to bow down to Sony's (& others) unreasonable demands re the proprietary Blu Ray format. Not that it matters much, Cyberlink's software was included with my Blu Ray burner anyway. I made the mistake of getting an iPhone on contract. It is unusable unless jailbroken. There is no way I will ever buy anything Apple again.
rubaiyat 28 October 2011	911TS wrote: I have a PC I built for less than half the price of the equivalent Apple product. Recently added an SSD to it. Details please.
r430r 28 October 2011	I am biased towards PC, but exactly for the reasons you put forward, I am a peaceful, tolerant and accepting sort of person, however if i'm told that i'm limited without just reasoning (and because apple thinks the average person is a moron, is not a good reason), I tend to become a little angry.
rubaiyat 28 October 2011	So you have no objection to Microsoft thinking you are a moron?
rex.withers 28 October 2011	Thanks for this. Good to see someone thinking about things, having their own opinion not just regurgitating the mac fan boy hype, seduced by other peoples uninformed opinions.
rubaiyat 28 October 2011	ie agreeing with you. :)
photohounds 31 October 2011	Same reason I gravitated to Linux. Huge bang for the buck, and if you use non-free distros not much work either. It can't do one or two tricks Win or Mac can do - they both have their specialties. It DOES make great use of processor and RAM, stays UP and is configurable limited only by your imagination. I find open source (or commercial) apps for everthing _I_ want to do. It talks to all the other machines here - Win, Lin Andriod, WinPhone (I know, I know) Friend's Mac products and when I've time - I'm sure conversations with a planned Hackintosh. All with little issue. Ruby, I see you'e got that case - well done :) Anyone who's seen one would place it in the top 10 cases ever! The idea is to use what works for you - then it's "the best".
Nisman 2 November 2011	Way to sound like a fanboy rubaiyat. Whilst I do appreciate the appeal of Macs, much like gaming consoles, are a buy and forget purchase your argument that it is not actually possible to build a pc for much cheaper is invalid. Also, stop with this: "I just wish I could get a PC case half as good, at twice the price. But you can't, for love nor money." Looks are subjective. Access into both cases is as easy as the other be they latches or thumbscrews. Installing expansions is just as easy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSfsrqvxNHI Although I don't understand why it takes 12 minutes for a Mac user to explain this particular hardware install... How about we compare similair specced systems. Mac Pro: http://store.apple.com/au/configure/MC560X/A?select=select&product=MC560X%2FA $2999 http://www.msy.com.au Intel DZ68DB - $132 4G Kit 1333 G.Skill Ripjaws-X - $31 WD Blue SATA3 1TB - $109 1G 6770 Powercolor - $99 Intel i7-2600K - $333 Pioneer 206BK - $115 Corsair HX650 - $136 Hell I even chose a case that looks as silly as the Mac Pro one you love so much: http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=555&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62 Lian Li PC-V1020 - $229 (Newegg.com price) Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate - $185 Total: $1369 Almost forgot...Apple Magic Mouse and Keyboard +$119.98 Comes to $1488.98, still under half. "I will agree on the issue of building a powerful desktop PC to beat a MacPro, but I don't believe he did it for anything like half the price. That is a claim I repeatedly test and never get in reality, not even close." - rubaiyat Meh, that was easy. Better RAM, better video card, faster processor, even a Blu Ray burner. While MacOSX will always be a more stable operating system than anything MS can sh*t out every 4-5 years the price you pay is only really worth it if you are using the computer for sound or video work. In the end you will still like your Mac Pro whilst I will be happy owning only one Apple product, my iPhone. I simply wanted to point out from a building and hardware standpoint, it is really quite easy to build a more powerful PC for the price.
rubaiyat 3 November 2011	For a start the Intel i7 does not match the raw power of a Xeon, despite the Xeon not getting an upgrade in yonks. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258554-28-quad-core-xeon Quote: In the end we actually bought a dual processor Xeon machine. This gives me 8 cores. I can't compare an I7 directly, since I dont have one, but I can report that in the same cad simulation the dual Xeon was 7.5x faster than a core 2 duo of the same clock speed and FSB - Pretty impressive! To be clear - the speed improvement was way above just the number of cores. This has to be due to the fact that Xeons have a more efficient memory interface better suited to multiple processors. The total memory on each machine was the same (the 2x Xeon board looks a bit bare :-) ). Comparing the price of this machine with an I7, we would have spent an extra $500 for probably worse performance with the I7. In fact the machine was a snip for <£1500 (UKP). Of course I now get asked to do seven times as much work Where are all the other built ins that come with the Power Mac eg Bluetooth, wireless, audio etc? Plus the software? Where are all the extra costs from MSY, credit charges, freight etc? Especially the freight for the Lian-Li case from Newegg. Do you have a cost on research, assembly, testing, warranty and support or is it just enough to compare a box of parts spread out on your floor with a computer that booted up in 2 minutes of arriving and has all of Apple's customer service behind it? The Mac Pro comes with all of these. Price those in or stop pretending you have bothered trying to match. Oh and always compare full price for a Mac with discount for a PC! Yes looks are subjective but not quite so with good design. All you see is a tinny, noisy, hot, pressed metal Lian Li with perforations and you go ah "Just the same!" It must be the holes that make a Mac Pro case! The trouble with PC users seems to be they are sitting on their tastebuds and have a single point perspective of playing FPS games and that is it. Rarely any experience of what real work entails, or is. Certainly quality is completely foreign and actually quite bewildering. You start salivating when they show the KFC bucket on TV, who cares that its unhealthy fried processed crap from the hands of underpaid, unqualified teenagers, there's LOTSA! There have been comments here and elsewhere of the poor experience of sourcing parts from MSY, and just trying your link now their servers are down. Bodes well. Edited by rubaiyat: 3/11/2011 01:32:08 AM
Nisman 3 November 2011	Wow...Ok, 1. I like that you quoted something that only specifically states that Xeon performance was much greater than i7 with no context. Most people aren't idiots, we understand that Xeons are faster for multithreaded tasks, often significantly faster. But how many programs ARE taking advantage of this speed compared to the majority of programs that are optimised to run on a single core. Just like I said before, a Mac is only worth it for very specific tasks, for the majority of people, you will get better value from building a PC as it will get your multi-threaded tasks done competently while allowing you to play games while not spending a huge amount of money. Also: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html A suite of tests run on multiple cores for the CPU to give an overall view of realworld performance. 2. I don't understand the need for wireless on a tower computer like the Mac Pro but regardless, PCI-E Asus PCE-N10 - $35, Asus USB Bluetooth Dongle - $18. Total: $1541.98, Just Over Half. 3. I only chose the PC-v1020 as an example of a case with exactly the same design language as the Mac Pro. I wouldn't buy that case because it looks silly to me, I would buy a case from MSY just like the rest of the parts (example: CC600TWhite - $208) I'll link it for the sake of it but although I like how it looks and the design, like I've said that's subjective and doesn't come into the argument: http://www.corsair.com/pc-cases/graphite-series-pc-case/special-edition-white-graphite-series-600t-mid-tower-case.html 4. As for research, assembly and testing, that doesn't cost anything. Just as you have had to spend time learning the ins and outs of macs I have learned how to put computers together. It doesn't cost anything for you to put a computer together, it just takes time (2 hours for my last i7/GTX 580 build) and I'd rather take a little time than spend $1500 more than I need to. 5. You love the idea of Apple's customer service don't you. If you actually knew about the Mac Pro package I'm using as an example you'd realise it doesn't come with the extended warranty. AppleCare Protection Plan costs another $299. While the machine does come with a one year warranty that is no different to PC components which all have a base warranty of 1 year and often 2-3 years or lifetime for certain brands such as the RAM I have included in my comparison. 6. "Oh and always compare full price for a Mac with discount for a PC!" - rubaiyat Lol, what does that mean? If I was to buy this Mac Pro it would cost $2999, if I was to buy these parts it would cost under $1550. Discount doesn't come into it. If you are going by that logic, I could just as easily tell you to compare with discounted PC parts (MSY has in store clearances) and your case would look even worse. 7. "Yes looks are subjective but not quite so with good design. All you see is a tinny, noisy, hot, pressed metal Lian Li with perforations and you go ah "Just the same!" It must be the holes that make a Mac Pro case!" - rubaiyat You're being subjective again, just not about looks and instead about design. Have you used a Lian Li case? How do you know it's tinny, noisy and hot? Just making up stories to prove a point...I didn't say the cases were the same, I said they looked as silly as each other to me. Also, how is the Mac Pro case design, which is not a subjective thing, so superior. You have easy access to 4 hard drives, RAM sticks and cramped access to the video card. In the Lian Li case or even a cheap $45 case: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6692, I have free access to any part of the computer I want to play around with. Both cases fulfil their design purpose of holding your components, neither has better design. Hence the argument moves to design aesthetic, hence I showed you a case with similar design language. 8. "The trouble with PC users seems to be they are sitting on their tastebuds and have a single point perspective of playing FPS games and that is it. Rarely any experience of what real work entails, or is. Certainly quality is completely foreign and actually quite bewildering. You start salivating when they show the KFC bucket on TV, who cares that its unhealthy fried processed crap from the hands of underpaid, unqualified teenagers, there's LOTSA!" - rubaiyat What is this, I don't even... way to generalise dude. Instead of making PC users look bad your comment just makes you look stuck up and ignorant. So me being a PC user makes me lazy? I'm a paramedic so I guess that's not real work to you then. As for KFC etc. I don't even know what you are trying to say, that is one of the most bizarre pieces of Engrish I have seen from a supposedly educated person. If you are trying to use the metaphor of PC users simply accepting bad quality products maybe have a look at yourself and see how much of a sheep you are for paying $3000 for an underpowered, proprietary piece of technology. It's ok, you can only use it how Apple wants you to use it so at least there's less chance for it to mess up. PS. "* There have been comments here and elsewhere of the poor experience of sourcing parts from MSY, and just trying your link now their servers are down. Bodes well." - rubaiyat What, where who? MSY is a shop. You go in and you buy parts then you leave. You have hearsay and affected opinions, I have reciepts and no issues with MSY. As for their website being down, I can access it just fine. Also, how is it being down indicative of buying parts from there? If I couldn't access Apple's website would you also say that "it doesn't bode well for Apple?" Edited by Nisman: 3/11/2011 10:47:24 AM
photohounds 3 November 2011	The down time last weeks for icloud the apple order servers on $S release day must have been a portend for 212 pages of terrible battery life reports on the 4S - here at the apple support forum : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3391947?start=3150&start=0 That's thousands of users - just the ones who bother - not the mas and pas who haven't a clue. It merely demonstrates that nothing's perfect. It's great to build your own box, SELECTING the right OS for the job. Everything I want, nothing I don't. P.S. Has anyone made OS/2 install and run on modern hardware? PM??
rubaiyat 3 November 2011	You are doing the usual selective comparison. You chose to single out the Mac Pro, which is a hefty workstation, to compare to (now the argument goes) a consumer PC. Why? So you could claim it is too expensive without matching it part for part. Since you are now switching tack and have gone the cheap route, why are you not comparing it to my fully assembled, tested and warranted 27" iMac that I happen to use for a workstation. I bought that at discount for an effective $1530 which includes a to die for super high resolution display. Something your DIY PC lacks. In fact in shopping around I could not find a comparable display for under $900. Yes I know the Mac Pro you are referring to (something that is only a pic on a website to you) and it comes with 1 year of Apple's excellent support and warranty. You may extend that to 3 years if you want. That is one year in which if it doesn't work as promised Apple has to fix or replace it. Or 3 years if it doesn't work as promised Apple has to fix or replace it ($150 a year sounds cheap). Applecare also comes with bottomless expert telephone support. I had an oddball networking problem, not really due to Apple's gear and got a day and a half with a networking guru in North Sydney. Your DIY warranty is only parts, without an overall warranty, something that costs money and something you have not included in the cost of the PC. If those parts combine to cause the problem, the cost of correcting the fault comes out of your pocket. Looking through the forums there seems to be plenty of instances of exactly that happening. By taking on the role of the manufacturer you have assumed the risk without calculating in the cost of the risk. I have NEVER paid full price for a Mac, so quoting figures you blindly fish off the internet is not a real Mac vs PC comparison. But that is something you are not trying to do at all. You are just cherry picking anything and everything that might support your case. Leaving off parts and charges from the PC if it suits. You claim you can build a compromised PC out of whatever hits the remainder bin (which btw I have also been checking). Of course you can and that gets you what? Something to match your Vinnies' wardrobe? Once again the Mac Pro price is delivered, ready to boot up, with warranty. No miserable surcharge on credit cards like MSY (add $31). You and I may be within driving distance of MSY but not everyone is. There are several people on this forum for whom getting their gear is either a long drive or a paid delivery (add insurance to that as well, say $35). Even within one of the capital cities MSY is not exactly next door (so delivery is still $70-90 more). I have been pursuing the option of building a Hackintosh running 3 or 4 OSes: OSX, WXP, W7 and Ubuntu. It will be my test bed for a number of projects. So I am well aware of what is available and have done what most PC users seem to spend inordinate time doing, pouring over specs and reviews. I am struck by the very thing we are debating here, the different expectations of quality and design. I have also spent weekends browsing through MSY's delightful "shopfront" bemused at the prices, which do not seem cheap at all on the marker products I am familiar with. The Lian Li cases like your alternative is ugly and to my designer's eye poorly laid out and organised. But you are used to multiple noisy fans, cheap plastic and pressed metal with cables crammed wherever you can shove them. I notice cheap cowls around pressure points like USB ports which look subject to breakage just like on my home PC. I also notice the need to hang dongles and accessories to make up for inbuilt Mac features. Going through the forums I notice common driver problems and hardware conflicts that I'd never put up with on a Mac. All of which would be back to Apple if they ever were to occur in the first place. I went through that with my previous PC, a string of niggling problems too difficult toi resolve and so you just put up with them. Finally I am such a "sheep" that I have NOT bought a Mac Pro because I get better bangs for my bucks with my iMac. I have also not gone with the 90% of Winsheep that put up with PCs and a kludge of an OS because "It's cheaper". So long as you never add it all up, maths not being a strong point of most consumers. I work with PC users and watching them waste all that time makes me realise what a wise decision it was to buy the cheap (and nasty) gear for that one off saving! Yes, I notice that MSY's site is back up. Must be using their own gear. At least that is a vote of confidence. Edited by rubaiyat: 3/11/2011 01:17:43 PM
rubaiyat 3 November 2011	Oh, and I forgot the eternal PC reason for buying: Nisman wrote: ...while allowing you to play games while not spending a huge amount of money. =d>
MBP man 4 November 2011	I use both OS-X and Windows 7 and the lower price of a power Windows system isn't everything. The premium I pay for Apple integration isn't a concern because I believe you get what you pay for. I used to be Windows (up to XP) user then switch to Mac 4 years ago. Since then I have built my own Windows 7 64bit tower system so run both. The Apple Eco system and the way everything works together is very appealling and for that our household (2 adults, 2 children.. all on Apple products) it simply cannot be beaten. The children intuitively understand how everything works and yes it "just works". My hobby is Photography and it all works well for me there. The Windows 7 tower system for me is cheap Grunt and something I can tinker with as a computer nerd. It's like having the custom hotrod project in the garage. Fun to to build and change things and it's cheap thrills but heck, things don't alway work as they should and it breaks down more often. Also Windows 7 is very good but it's still not as good as OS-X. And after 4 years I have never has malware or virus on my OS-X system but my infant Windows 7 system is brisling with firewall and cirus protection but still catches bugs.
rubaiyat 4 November 2011	...and like the Hot Rod analogy the PC is @#$% noisy. Just been down to MSY and going over their recommended "quiet" cases is a joke. I hit the usual problem of quality, design and PCs are just not in the same room. Soon as I mentioned that I wanted a cool, quiet running case, because that is what I'm used to, another customer said "You must be a Mac user!" Suppose it is a dead give away.
photohounds 6 November 2011	Hah! It seems I am stuck with WinDog for my entertainment server. I need it to run Bodzio's Ultimate equaliser. Flat frequency AND phase anyone? Amplifier-like performance from a speaker - Impossible? Nope! Not for the feint-hearted. It does, however yield superb audio via a PC and multi-channel sound card. I've been using this since the early 90's and it is excellent software, with a steep learning curve. Oh yes, it also designs speaker enclosures, crossovers, predicts room resonances etc. etc. The depth of results depends entirely on how much time you are willing to spend. Imagine my pleasure that Amarok's successor has been ported to the win platform from Linux. Bye Bye itoons, it always was an also ran by comparison. Oh yeah, my Tuniq extreme 120 cools my machine easily and very quietly, no matter how fast I run it - won't fit in a laptop, though :)
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	So photo, what case are you using, how are you cooling it besides the Tuniq extreme 120 and exactly how quiet is it? I don't even want to know my PC is there. Great display and quiet are my 2 principle requirements, which make working all day a delight and not a chore. MSY's suggestion is the Sonata III and IV, but after looking at both the cases, reviews and comments I am not convinced. My comment was the best method to make it quiet is passive and adequate ventilation and not make the noise in the first place rather than to hide or dampen it. I also would like the PC to have low energy usage, if possible, as it is permanently on. Will this fit the ASUS and Gigabyte z68 motherboards? Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 07:42:49 AM
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	FYI a well written piece on the future of the Mac Pro: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/10/31/on-the-mac-pros-future/ Be curious to see Geekbench scores for the alternative PCs mentioned above, these are for the Mac Pro and the rest of Apple's range: http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/ Love to see it in action encoding video or rendering 3D to compare to my iMac. There is nothing quite like the feel of how fast and responsive hardware/software is to the user. It tells you everything in one session that endless graphs and "reviews" fail to. These are the top Geekbench results: http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/top Obviously the more processors you can throw at the job the better. Although it is interesting the MacPro with only 2 processors handsomely beats The Dell PowerEdge R910 with 4 but loses out to the HP ProLiant DL580 G7 with 4 processors. Geekbech: 42076 HP ProLiant DL580 G7, a 4 processor rack server, fails to give measurable specs so I can't find out how much it costs, but I suspect it is a tanked up one. They vary from $2176 to $8118. Geekbech: 40100 Mac Pro, which is a 2 processor tower, from $2499 to $17,223 (maxing out with Apple supplied RAM, SSD drives and cards etc.). Apple charges $3,400 for 64Gb of DDR3 ECC SDRAM, RAMCity charges $1134 Apple charges $1250 for 512Gb SSD, Kingston costs $899 Again there aren't full specs for the Mac Pro used but my guess, using what clues there are, is the Apple configuration for $10,123. Using 3rd part RAM that would come down to $8488 and include a 4 x 3Tb HDD RAID. Surprisingly Apple's HDD are very well priced. Geekbech: 36334 Dell PowerEdge R910, a 4 processor rack server, from $4975 to $9995. All prices are US$ Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 09:19:10 AM
willtell 6 November 2011	rubaiyat, you need to realise (which you probably do) that Apple's neglect of the Mac Pro means that their older architecture is being out done by more cost effective alternatives. The 'current' Mac Pro base model system uses an Intel Xeon W3530. This is a Bloomfield and can't compete against the current Sandy Bridge Xeon's such as the E3-2130. Where I am employed, we have a range of computers from different platforms. All employees have a desktop, where some staff have an additional laptop for presentations or for when travelling. Traditionally our engineers and designers have been all about the Mac Pro. In fact when I started here 7 years ago the designers and engineers weapon of choice was the Mac Pro - they all had them. However in the past year or two I have seen a shift away from the Pro. We use a national distributor for our custom build desktops. They assemble, install and test before shipping to us. All we need to do is add our own applications and configure the PC to the network. I can say with all certainty that in the past two years we've not had a single PC arrive DOA. In that time frame we've only had a few warranty claims with fast turn-around time (same day in most cases). You can get that same level of service from any of the major online system builders. mwave, scorptec, etc will assemble, install and benchmark the crap out of your new workstation before shipping it to you. They will do it for a very low fee (a friend recently purchased a PC from mwave and they charged about $95 for the service). Although Apple has been fantastic when it comes to telephone support or warranty turn around, we have had several devices show up DOA - from memory two MacBooks and an iMac. While the frequency of this occurring is extremely low, the same would apply to any of the major manufacturers as they do not test your machine before they ship it to you. This is why I tend to prefer the custom build route - the machine is ready to go when it gets here. At this point we only have two Mac Pro's left in our office. All of the engineers have switched to custom build workstations and it's only two designers that are using Mac Pro's they purchased last year. The latest machine would blow the doors off a Mac Pro while still being around $1000 cheaper than the base model. It's quiet, expandable, flexible (we can just drop a Quadro 4000 into them for our engineers) and arrives ready to dance every single time. I just put together a similar configuration at mwave (without the Quadro 4000) that will easily crush the quad core Mac Pro for under $2200. That includes a Sandy Bridge Xeon, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD and two 1TB SATA's to run in RAID, nVidia 550 for the CUDA cores, all in a very quiet Fractal Design case (runs at about 20db excluding the GPU) with a power efficient Corsair PSU. It includes assembly, testing and shipping. Apple has some great stuff (iMac and Macbook I'm looking at you), but the Mac Pro just can't compete in the current market. - Will
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	Thanks for that heads up willtell. Sadly we all know that Apple is letting the Mac Pro down, as it is virtually all its Pro users. Unfortunately as the only Mac tower it is used by PC users as the comparator for their PC towers. I have re-edited my previous post re the Geekbench results. Interested in any comments you can make. I'm looking at building a 3 or 4 HDD PC i7 workstation using an ASUS or Gigabyte z68 motherboard and 6870 video card to use as a multi-OS testbed (OSX, W7, WXP and Ubuntu). Could you post a detailed configuration that I could cost up? I'd really appreciate it, I've been chewing on this for months, even before I bought my iMac 27" because it is such fantastic value and quality, that I couldn't pass it up. Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 12:12:22 PM
photohounds 6 November 2011	AH they tempt you with good quality and good prices Ruby ... Shame on you :) There's enough quiet cooling with the Tuniq at about half speed (it is inaudible outside the case until about 3/4 pace). It is a heavy cooler but so far very effective indeed. Up only 20 hours - needed to install Tuniq. :-) I have 2x 120 fans (which you CAN currently hear). So .. plenty of flow and now I plan to run the other 2 at about half speed - the miracle of a couple of watt resistors - 5 to 10 ohms? :) Got the case fans from either pccasegear.com.au (or quietpc.com, from whom I've ordered some smaller fans that run at about 12Db for the WinDog HTPC). You are totally correct that the stock fans in just about EVERY case are rubbish. I use one one to drag air from the HDDs, the other as case exhaust. PSU is an Antec 520 premium one (forget its real name). Drives are currently: /dev/sda: Hitachi HDS723020BLA642: 31°C /dev/sdb: Hitachi HDS723020BLA642: 31°C /dev/sdc: ST31500341AS: 32°C Room is about 20°C at the moment, moderate usage - CPU is 34 - about 12 degrees lower than the stock cooler which was thrashing when the room became warm. If I could have found my silver paste, I might have squeezed 2-3 degrees extra out of it.
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	Whilst investigating the Xeons I came across this: Interesting, because on my iMac i5 I am getting between 108 fps to 142fps, which seems to be markedly better than the 97 shown here. Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 11:40:59 AM
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	photohounds wrote: AH they tempt you with good quality and good prices Ruby ... Shame on you :) I was referring to the iMac, my expectations of the PC are much lower. Like I said I want to play with a test bed, but not throw my money away like I did on my last PC. Quote: There's enough quiet cooling with the Tuniq at about half speed (it is inaudible outside the case until about 3/4 pace). It is a heavy cooler but so far very effective indeed. Up only 20 hours - needed to install Tuniq. :-) 3/4 pace is next to the PC. Quote: I have 2x 120 fans (which you CAN currently hear). So .. plenty of flow and now I plan to run the other 2 at about half speed - the miracle of a couple of watt resistors - 5 to 10 ohms? :) That is a mixed message. You say you can hear the fans but it is quiet? Is it or is it not? Quote: Got the case fans from either pccasegear.com.au (or quietpc.com, from whom I've ordered some smaller fans that run at about 12Db for the WinDog HTPC). You are totally correct that the stock fans in just about EVERY case are rubbish. I use one one to drag air from the HDDs, the other as case exhaust. So at least 2. Shouldn't they be 140mm so they can turn more slowly? Quote: PSU is an Antec 520 premium one (forget its real name). I think I need at least 650W because of the 4 HDDs. Quote: Drives are currently: /dev/sda: Hitachi HDS723020BLA642: 31°C /dev/sdb: Hitachi HDS723020BLA642: 31°C /dev/sdc: ST31500341AS: 32°C Room is about 20°C at the moment, moderate usage - CPU is 34 - about 12 degrees lower than the stock cooler which was thrashing when the room became warm. If I could have found my silver paste, I might have squeezed 2-3 degrees extra out of it. I am in a hot room in summer (freezing in winter). Thrashing does not sound good. I was also experincing freezing with my older PC because of over heating. How much am I going to have to do to keep things cool and stable? Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 11:51:54 AM
photohounds 6 November 2011	The Tuniq plus a couple of 140's would work even better. I have a question, other than moving air how's a MAC keep cool? Or are we just talking quality fans in the first place instead of junk? It isn't totally quiet yet, the 3 extra USB-boxed HDDs are audible over the PC, not to mention the need to isolate one of them (it has always vibrated a little since I used it out of the PC case). Using an old Antec Sonata 2 - no panel damping yet, either. Just big enough to stuff the drives, some good fans, a Tuniq 120 and 3 DVDs in.
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	photohounds wrote: The Tuniq plus a couple of 140's would work even better. I have a question, other than moving air how's a MAC keep cool? Or are we just talking quality fans in the first place instead of junk? I assume it has good large fans, but they don't generally seem to turn unless they have to, and the case is well ventilated because of the perforations. Apple has configured the case with a shaped natural air flow and no obstructions. Cables are in one neat set. Since the case is really solid too, I suspect there is less of the chattering and vibrating that you get in the typical PC pressed metal cases. Even the slide in slide out hotswap HDD trays are made of quite solid aluminium and seat well. The PC cases advertise silicon grommets as antidotes to everything not fitting so well, but these perish I think especially given the hot environment. I'm not saying the Mac Pro case is perfect, for one it is very bulky considering the expandability, but it is really really solid. Quote: It isn't totally quiet yet, the 3 extra USB-boxed HDDs are audible over the PC, not to mention the need to isolate one of them (it has always vibrated a little since I used it out of the PC case). Using an old Antec Sonata 2 - no panel damping yet, either. Just big enough to stuff the drives, some good fans, a Tuniq 120 and 3 DVDs in. I have 14 external drives, not all in use at once, only the Seagate was ever noticeable. The Sonata really gets panned in the reviews I read. Hard to know what to pick. Edited by rubaiyat: 6/11/2011 12:25:43 PM
willtell 6 November 2011	Quality cases that use large, quiet fans are usually the better option. It's impossible to test how quiet a case is because retailers don't have them hooked up. This is an area in which Apple excels in comparison (if you have an Apple store near you). Tom's Hardware and Anandtech are two websites that routinely test the temperature and noise output from PC's/cases. I remember they did a round-up not too long ago testing the db's of supposedly "quiet" full PC cases. Only a few of them met their requirements. You also need to take into account the power supply, CPU cooler and the GPU cooler. Buy cheap and dodgy here and you'll be listening to a 747 take off every day. My preference for quiet, cool cases has always been Silverstone. They cost more, but are worth it. I have one at home and work - find them both excellent compared to the alternatives. We now have 6 machines in our office that use a Fractal Design case (fairly new to Australia) - all of which would run under 25db. I've been very impressed with them as well. Side note for rubaiyat... you won't find a PC case that will match the design of the Mac Pro. This is just my opinion, but I would say it's because the case needs to support a variety of different hardware sizes, types, cable lengths, etc. It's just the nature of having to support thousands of options that rarely meet agreed standards. As for power supplies, Corsair tend to make very quiet, energy efficient units. It's important to go modular as well as it will save lots of space and improve airflow in your case. The biggest issue is GPU. The more powerful you go, the louder it gets. In the office all the desktops run either integrated video (so no need for an extra GPU), NVidia 550's or for the engineers NVidia 4000's. The 550's by ASUS aren't that loud considering the case isn't sitting next to your head. Building a system to match an iMac27 is nearly impossible, due to the quality of the screen. In fact it's hard to beat the iMac27 for value - probably why they are popular in our office. The benefit to the PC build is flexibility. Sometimes people think that a PC user is going the route of non-Apple hardware to save money. In my experience that's rarely the case. It's more to do with the multitude of options and getting only what you need - say an i7 based machine with a 23 inch screen, or perhaps even an AMD based machine. Rubaiyat... if I get some time later I'll try to price up a desktop for you from mwave or scorptec. What's your budget? Or are you looking for an iMac equivalent? Just remember if you are, you aren't going to find it. As for the benchmarks, results can depend on a lot of things. Our engineers and designers love Xeon's and won't use anything else - hence the need for the E3's and C206 chipset boards. Like anything though, the more you spend on sheer power, the better performance you get.
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	Thanks Will, that's very kind of you. No I'm not trying to get an iMac equivalent, we already have 5 iMacs. I'm hoping to get something more like a low end Mac Pro for between $1500 - $2000 if that is possible. My attempts at putting one together are close to the $2000 mark but someone with more nous should be able to sharpen that pencil I imagine. I tend to err on the side of quality than price. It would help if it did useful work, besides just act as a testbed. So it could be the faster option for video encoding and 3D rendering and possibly even act as a server. I'd still be working on my iMac, as that has the high end display. At some point, as always seems to happen with my gear the kids might get it as a games station after I am through with it. The important thing is being able to boot off the alternative OSes using identical hardware (but separate HDs). So that dictates the motherboard, cpu and gpu be one that can be supported by OSX. ie Intel i7 or Xeon, z68 mboard, and 6850 gpu. Nearly everything else is not an issue I believe. I have some PC gear lying around. I have a large high end graphics CRT screen, keyboards, mice, speakers. The network cards are probably dated. Nothing else could be reused.
willtell 7 November 2011	Ok I did some quick pricing for you. I can't figure out how to save the cart and link to it at either website so I'll just list it here. Scorptec: $1315 mwave: $1309 Intel Core i7 2600 Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3HB3 Intel Z68 motherboard Corsair 8GB Kit (2x 4GB), PC-10600 (1333MHz) DDR3 Hitachi 1TB Deskstar 7K1000.C, SATAIII, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache Fractal Design Define R3, Black ATX Case, No PSU Lite-On IHAS324(BLACK) 24x Super ALLWRITE, DVD MSI Radeon HD6850 Cyclone Overclocked Corsair AX-650 650W ATX Power Supply, 80PLUS GOLD Certified, 100% Modular With system build As you plan to install OSX on it, from what I have read Gigabyte boards work better. I only added 1 HDD but you can add more. Hitachi have been good for us and are quiet. Fractal R3 case. We have a number of these in our office now and so far we're impressed (as far as you can be by a PC case). MSI Cyclone GPU just to save heat and noise. These come in about 15 degrees cooler than the reference design and run at around 40db when under load. They are the quietest 6850. Corsair gold modular PSU. It's the same one that I have at home and work. Costs a little more but worth it. Should more than handle your whole configuration. I just stuck to the basics as a guide for you. Any extras can be added fairly easily. This config should be fairly quiet (almost as quiet as a Mac Pro).
rubaiyat 7 November 2011	Thanks very much for that Will I'll run that past the Hackintosh specs and see what comes up. :) PS you didn't use an Intel i7 2600k? What was the reason for that? Edited by rubaiyat: 7/11/2011 05:32:41 AM
amcmo 7 November 2011	I'd go the 6870, however one important point is it MUST be an AMD reference design, that is the ports must be ref design which is what I understand the Apple drivers are designed for. From memory it has 2 DVI, 2 Display Port and 1 HDMI. There are some board out there that are quieter than others. Check if one of the 3 fan Gigabyte 6870 boars is a reference based design. I have. 6970 in my PC and it's silent. Can't use that board in a Hac from what I'm told. The only benefit to the 2600k is the ability to overclock.
samual 9 November 2011	My preference for quiet, cool cases has always been Silverstone. They cost more, but are worth it. I have one at home and work - find them both excellent compared to the alternatives. We now have 6 machines in our office that use a Fractal Design case (fairly new to Australia) - all of which would run under 25db. I've been very impressed with them as well.
rubaiyat 9 November 2011	Ah wake up and smell the bitumen. :) Whose idea was it to put heavy oil byproducts into PC cases? Wanna make sure that the overclocking doesn't reach ignition point if all the fans fail. Thanks samual, I'm looking seriously at all the options, and wondering if I'll commit before Christmas. I've just been hit by a bunch of bills that came out of the blue. Makes a geektoy PC lower on my priorities.
elhombre 7 January 2012	Good article. I'm running on a 2011 MacBook Pro here in Dubai, but 80% of the time it runs Windows 7 via BootCamp. In OSX I also have VMWare with Vista in a VM (seemed a shame to waste the CD). Back in BrisVegas I have an iMac and what was a $5000 top of the range Full Tower PC back in 2010.
alsmith5225 12 January 2012	I still anticipate a Mac is bigger for editing,There is something to be said about the affluence of owning a Mac, my i7 PC that I body has not been all bland sailing with a HDD abortion and a disciplinarian bug I've not been able to fix, and I'm on my own in aggravating to fix these things. With the Mac, just bead it aback to the abundance or a quick seek online commonly sorts any botheration with a aggregation of humans application the exact aforementioned product.
amcmo 17 January 2012	I've already commented on the poor logic used by the guy in justifying his supposed switch. It certainly runs counter to the latest stats. http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/412503/focus_mac_attack_-_big_switch Substantial companies, and educational insitutes making the swithc from Windows to Mac both for financial and performace reasons. Mac sales increasing by a good percentage as PC sales a slowing in the GFC. I'm not anticipating a Windows obituary any time soon, however the days of Mac as a niche seem to be well behind us.
elhombre 17 January 2012	It's only anecdotal, but I find I use my MacBook Pro as a Windows/Fedora 16 (in a VM) machine for probably 90% of the time. The only time I use OSX is when I want to play music through iTunes/PureMusic and the external DAC. amcmo wrote: I've already commented on the poor logic used by the guy in justifying his supposed switch. It certainly runs counter to the latest stats. http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/412503/focus_mac_attack_-_big_switch Substantial companies, and educational insitutes making the swithc from Windows to Mac both for financial and performace reasons. Mac sales increasing by a good percentage as PC sales a slowing in the GFC. I'm not anticipating a Windows obituary any time soon, however the days of Mac as a niche seem to be well behind us.