Will Windows 8 really block Linux installs?

Will Windows 8 really block Linux installs?

One of the big concerns is that Windows 8 and UEFI will impact users wanting to dual boot with Linux. Nathan Taylor looks at the issue.

We’ve seen a lot of hysterical comments in the past week or so about how Windows 8 is going to screw Linux by preventing Linux dual boots and installs. To be honest, it has been rather astounding the amount of misinformation that has been peddled.

The core of the issue actually has very little to do with Windows 8. The uproar is over secure boot. Secure boot is a feature of UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface), and UEFI is the PC firmware that is gradually replacing the antiquated BIOS system in newer PCs.
 
When enabled, the secure boot feature of UEFI allows only operating systems with a Trusted Certificate to start up. The certificate is generally loaded into the UEFI by the PC manufacturer. It’s kind of like the way that the Xbox will only run code that has been signed by Microsoft; the PC will only run an OS that has a proper encrypted key. A given PC can have certificates for multiple operating systems installed.
 
The point of this is to prevent boot-time viruses and other nastiness from running. Since the PC will only run authorised OSes, no virus will be able to execute in a pre-OS environment.
 
Now here’s where Windows 8 comes in. Microsoft’s licensing program for the Windows 8 logo requires that PCs ship with UEFI and secure boot enabled (and obviously with a Windows 8 key installed, though keys for other OSes might also be present). Not locked, just enabled by default. 
 
Now, in theory, this could screw Linux and other non-Windows users, as well as people using older versions of Windows. PC manufacturers could release devices with secure boot locked, meaning that the only OS that the PC will ever run is Windows 8, since that’s the only OS it will boot. We don’t expect many manufacturers to actually do that, however – most will certainly allow you to switch secure boot off in the UEFI interface, or at least load new keys into the UEFI to allow more operating systems to run – but in theory, they might.
 
Of course, we all know that within five minutes of any such release the device will be jailbroken. More to the point, you don’t have to buy that device. Really, if you want to run Linux, don’t buy a PC that won’t run Linux.
 
So, for now, we’re seeing this as a storm in a teacup, and not something for most users to worry about. We may change our tune if all the major manufacturers start releasing OS-locked PCs, but there’s no indication so far that that will be the case.
 

Source: Copyright © PC & Tech Authority. All rights reserved.

See more about:  windows  |  opinion  |  linux  |  boot  |  uefi  |  bios  |  os  |  securitysoftware
 
 

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Comments: 12
DJ...
1 October 2011
How long will it be before MS comes to agreements with PC manufacturers to produce a "closed shop" for Windows 8? - Much the same way they made it conditional for PC manufacturers to install IE in the early days and not some other browser.
And then how long will it take the EU and the US to say this is anti-competitive and force all PC manufacturers to release the hardware unlocked. Then very few users will ever enable UEFI and the existing problems will continue., but only by choice I guess.


Comment made about the PC & Tech Authority article:
Will Windows 8 really block Linux installs??
One of the big concerns is that Windows 8 and UEFI will impact users wanting to dual boot with Linux. Nathan Taylor looks at the issue.

What do you think? Join the discussion.
Slatts
1 October 2011
Christ DJ..., did you even read the article?

Or are you just shooting your mouth off as usual?

If you're going to write crap, at least try to make it interesting crap.

#-o


Edited by Slatts: 1/10/2011 01:50:31 PM
petergaskin
1 October 2011
Read the article. understand why manufacturers moving to UEFI - to allow computers to boot from hard drives over 2.5 terabytes.
I guess if enough people kick up about the possibilty of secure lock, it amy persuade manufacturers to ensure that their systems can twin boot.
amcmo
2 October 2011
Ok, so some dumb manufacturer MIGHT (and a big MIGHT at that) decide to lock it. Would be rather dumb arse as word would quickly filter and their product avoided by those not wishing to be controlled in this manner.

For those who build their own PC's, you can be certain the likes of Gigabyte and ASUS would never fall in line with this.

UEFI motherboards especially from ASUS are proving to be extremely easy for our IT guys to build systems with large drives. Rock solid and great performers.


The article seemed a bit of a waste of time to me.
DeveloperChris
7 October 2011

I have been told by a usually reliable source (but can't point to their sources) that some OEM's have already admitted to only be providing windows 8 Keys. Does this mean windows 9 will be locked out too?

This is Microsoft trying to follow Apples lead, pure and simple.

I am sure the firmwares will be hacked and maybe manufacturers will offer an updated firmware without uefi. but its not nice knowing there are evil forces out there trying to destroy your freedoms.

thcispc
11 October 2011
I have just finished sorting a netbook and a notebook from the same manufacturer who has implemented the UEFI via one of the Phoenix examples.
Information is not readily available in those two cases to enable booting from a USB key.
But, as is often the case, there was no conspiracy, just a lack of communication.
Put the bootable key with whatever on it into the box before power-up and get the F2 in immediately. Look at the boot list and find USB_HDD. shove it up to the top and it's all good. You can't do anything with boot lines ending in N/A, but one of them will change to HDD.
I think the option will be maintained rather than blocked.
amcmo
11 October 2011
DeveloperChris

'Trying to follow Apple's Lead'

Apple allow you to run Windows/Linux on an Apple machine - Where's the beef?

Whatever restrictions Apple may choose to put on their product, they design and have their products manufactured to their spec, therefore nothing about destroying anyone's freedom. If you don't like Apple, don't buy it - you have that freedom. From previous posts, you wouldn't buy an Apple product no matter how good.

The HUGE difference is that M$ are apparently imposing their rules on mfrs installing Windows on products M$ have no part in the design or manufacture. Any mfrs who cave to them deserve not to get anyone's business.

Again, no restriction on your freedom. If you don't like it vote with your wallet.

Per previous post, seems more a matter of convenience and there should always be a way around it.


Edited by amcmo: 11/10/2011 05:51:09 PM
photohounds
13 October 2011

PC builders will buy from MoBo makers who DON'T have unreasonable lockdown, meaning that most likely ALL makers probably avoid the worst of it to keep selling product.
In extreme cases, a bios flash to get that key?

The millions of new Linux servers (that's the vast majority of new servers built) won't be bought from the ma & pa stores anyway, and will be unaffected. When you buy ONE computer the maker has ALL the power, when you buy 10,000+ YOU have the power.

2.5Tb boots seems to be THE only feature for which a lot of other "capability" has been built, EG the ability to "customise" as the machine boots - how does that serve the user? Google/M$/Apple ads off the web, as your machine boots anyone?

Background: There's been vigorous fighting as to what is allowed to be displayed on computer boot-time splash screens, most notably between M$ and those pesky hardware makers. Both camps wanted THEIR logos to be the first splash screen. Another stupid "patent issue" about ownership and locking innovation out, rather than definable IP.

From someone who knows a little about code (and actually tells people what's in the box, rather than placing more potentially buggy crap code to serve someone OTHER than the user, into the boot loader)

.... "So EFI has this cool shell, a loadable driver framework, and other nice
features. Where "nice" obviously means "much more complex than the simple things they designed in the late seventies back when people were stupid and just wanted things to work".

http://kerneltrap.org/node/6884

One would expect this piece of genius to be hacked a week after it is finalised, so no one needs to worry, unless you're one of those fools that simply MUST have some "shiny new product" within a week of it being released. Doing so somehow masquerades as bliss - for some.

AM, Apple do not license you to install MAC OS on hardware other than MAC, it's the reason for the interesting existence of http://www.hackintosh.com/ :) That policy is self-serving and unreasonably restrictive. I'm certainly not alone in believing that.

Even M$ don't do something like that (shhh don't bloody tell 'em or they WILL TRY IT!)

Sorry if this triple-posted, trying a new browser

amcmo
13 October 2011
My point about Apple is they sell the hardware and software, therefore they have every right to say, my OS only to be installed on my hardware, but you can also install other people's OS as well if you wish. Call it self serving, whatever you like, but they have no obligation and we have no (legal) right to demand otherwise.

M$ are trying to tell all the PC builders (if true) you must make your hardware so only my OS runs, and no-one elses. A world of difference.

The legion of Hackintosh builders are trying to get what they see as a better OS than Win to run on home build hardware to save $$$. More power to them, but Apple have no obligation to support them.

photohounds
13 October 2011
Enterprising chappies (mostly) won't need support from the mother ship :)

Where I install software should not be restricted by whom I have purchased it from, as long as I do not expect them to support it. Being prevented is something else entirely.

Imagine this crap in another industry:

Ford open petrol stations - but ... you can only install your ford petrol in a ford car. That would be squashed in an instant and declared illegal.

Software runs on hardware, and as long as the TYPE of hardware is suitable, it's maker IS irrelevant.

Still if you read the Microsoft EULA it is quite alarming what you indemnify them against - including trashing your box. And people worry about firefox/google et. al EULAS ... oi vey!
amcmo
13 October 2011
But remember, you don't BUY the software, you BUY a LICENCE TO USE, so they can impose whatever rules they like.

Thank IBM and the US Supreme Court for that one.

photohounds
13 October 2011
Agreed AM, and for now, I refuse to license it.

So it was IBM, eh? A minefield of info on the web :(
Tempting maCidea to maCplay with - as a DLNA server?

Alas I'm told that WinDog does all the codecs and protocols better - sigh.

It works fine on Linux, Btw.

I need to see if a certain piece of software that frequency and phase equalises audio output to perfectly flat will run on other than WinDog ...

Been buying and using this since it was called SSD (Speaker System Designer) http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/ not for the feint-hearted, though and I don't know of a mac equivalent as an all-round tool.


I wonder if it runs well in a VM. If so, that's the answer :)
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